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| nkosinipho |
Bafana AFCON 96 vs Bafana AFCON 98Hey Nahtino, I've decided to open this topic here, so that we can a lot of people, to prove that your analysiswas bad.Here what my Friend Nahtino had to say to me, in other Forum. nahtino:South africa was good once...I wudnt say we wer GREAT! We wer v good,BUT 1. We NEVER won against european opposition Nkosinipho: True we great by African Standard, but we were still on a learning playing European teams, which I bealive that buy the time 98WC would arrived Clive Baker and his technical team would have rectify the mistakes, from friendlies we made playing European oposition, just like we were trash by Every decent African team when we first started but we learned, Clive and his team camed with a Solution, we improved. we Builded a team, with players who got what it take to play National level, not selecting only Chiefs players and Pirates just like we did from 92-94. So man you cant down play Bafana 96 class, by not winning against European teams, the guys Did well against Brazil and Argentina, infact we even manged to control the tempo of those games, so they were positives from those games, which is the aim for friendlies. we that experience Clive Barker would have done a decent job in 98WC. Add a fact that most of the games we played aginst European teams, Doctor khumalo didnt play, whom in my IMO, was everything in Clive Barker Tactics which i'm going explained them later  , clearlly there was no player like him, so we struggled in most games he didnt play. To confirm that Checkhttp://www.safa.net/teams/te...ls.asp?action=results&team=1, then see all bafana games from 94-97, where Doctor mostly fictured.
Bafana AFCON 98 team didnt a Europena team either, so argument is flawed,Bafana 96>Bafana98 IMO. Nahtino: Our away record wasnt all that Nkosinipho You meant during WCQualifiers?? Won against Malawi away in preliminary rounds, draw against Zambia away, Lost Against Congo Brazaville away, Won against Zaire/DRC away, so 2win 1 draw and 1loss(in a hostile situation, with a player who was important Barker tactics not available, thats Dr. khumalo) Bafana Bafana of Doctor khumalo is/was greater than any Bafana Ever assembled. Nahtino: We did win the ACN @ home... BT Id argue that th 1998 ACN team coached by Jomo was better than 1996... We played away from home, Benni was on form and well he is the best striker wev ever had. Thabange lebisi was da shit, David Nyathi was th BOMB, Mark fish motivated,Andrew Rabutla was tuff etc... that side had things gon well wud have done sumthing better than the one that went to France... it had a soul a young enrgy to it... Ther wer a lot of youngsters that playd and proved themselves after being written off. They got a silver medal, after losing to a strong egypt side... Nkosinipho: First I'll discuss Away and Home Issue, True when you play home you have that confident when you play, the croud support ect. But man, you need to look things like this in a broader picture, For a Team to win it needs a proper planning/preparation whatever they call it. This thing include team tactics, having capable players in ur team, Making sure players are in a right state of mind, knowing ur players weakness and strong points ect. Without this ur team wont win regardless you playing home or away. IMO, the home situation didnt have that much effect, the team was good as i've just prove to you above the same players only lost once away in WQF(you must note that in most matches we drew or lost in Barker era in national team Docter Khumalo was not available) Secondly you claim the team played in 98 had youth, but I'll like to focus to starting line up of each team, then we can discuss. Bafana 96(Final): Arendse(29), Sizwe Motaung(26), Fish(22), Neil tovey(29), Lucas Radebe(27), Tinkler(26),Buthelezi(27),Doctor khumalo(29), Shoes(30), Phil Masinga(27), Bartlett(24) Average: 24 Bafana 98(Final):Brian Baloyi(24), Andrew Rabutla(27), Willem Jackson, Mark Fish(24), Lucas Radebe (c)(30), John Moeti(31), John Moshoeu(32), Helman Mkhalele(29), Brendan Augustine(27), Phil Masinga(29), Benedict McCarthy(21) average:25 Since you can see the average of each team's, there is no much difference, the 98 is older than the 96 one. The only differnce that Benni was young, together with fortune who later came on as a substitue. May ask you generally a footballer reach his prime when?? 24-30 most cases, if you look at Barker team, all players were playing were at their prime, most of them better than players in 98 team by huge magine. But that does not mean much what matters it Team tactics,preparation ect., which are the one make you win at the end of the day  (Balance is important in a team).
3rd: Why Bafana 96 >> Bafana 98 Team tactics of this both teams. 96 one was perfect with great football combine with results at the same time. We played like thi .........................................GK................................................. ..........Sizwe..................Tovey.................................Lucas............ ....................................................Fish..................................... ..................................Tinkler...............Linda.................................... .......................Shoes..........................Doctor Khumalo...................... ...........................Phil Masinga...................Bartlett............... Sizwe was basically owning the whole right hand side, The system allowed Fish to move foward as much as he like, because he liked doing that, when he went forward Linda use to sit back as the defender next to Tovey, Doctor Khumalo job was to control tempo, dictacte play, passes every direction, linkig midfield of ball markers with attacking line (Shoes,Phil,Bartlet later Williams,Mkhalele). Shoes position allowed him to move foward more, create and score goals, opening oposition with great runs( there was nomuch defencive responsibility since was protected, see different with jomo team below ).
Have you ever wondered why shoes scored 4 goals in that Tournament, and our top scorer? and Doctor finshed with most assist in our team?? They were given freedom moving all over the picth, the other control tempo aka Zizou/Riquelme style, the other one played Platini/Rivaldo style ect. with Phil Masinga as a target man, Bartllett use to have pace those day since he was young, they worked hard creating spce for coming Shoes and 16V. They lost 1 game against Egypt while already qualified next game, so Barker rested key players in that team. didnt start Doctor(Notice the difference as mentioned above),Shoes,Buthelezi ect. Even in that game we were attacking well its just that we were unlucky to concide a goal earlly. from: Algeria Match we played briliant football, the freedom that barker gave fish payed off and won us the game, Ghana Match i dont need to say anything since we were faultless in this game, Shoes doing his thing, DK conrtolling the Tempo. Abedi Pele,Tony yeboa were no where to be found. Tunisia should i say something. Then come Jomo Sono Team, Man if you can read all this match analysis. http://www.informatik.uni-frankfu...le/BALL/AFRICA/CAN98/nat_cup4.htm you'll see what i am going to talk about. Since I think you dont remember what assually happened in games there, you'll find out that we played Jomo Cosmos style just to scrap through for results, then failed against a well oiled team since we didnt have correct tactics. Our team was always sceptical about its fitness through out the tournament, we didnt play great football, Look at this flaws, then you'll see why we perfomed bad in the final( almost everygame except semi final one, where ur Benni played well )
We played 4-4-2(I hate this formation , since here in SAfrica is used with wrong players, e.g. Playing Nkosi in 4-4-2 is a suicide, since he cnt mark its like playing Riquelme/Rosicky/Deco ect. in a 4-4-2 )
........................................GK............................................. ..Rabutla....................Fish...............Lucas........................Jackson...... ...Augastine....................Moeti...................Shoes.............Mkhalele....... ..........................Phil..........................Benni......................... Look at this Shoes Played in a 4-4-2 system no wonder why he failed to peform in that tournament, he didnt even scored a sinhle goal, you know why, he is a playmeker for crying out loud, playmekers dont in CM position, thats why an well oiled team llike egypt beated us since they bypass us in Midfield since Shoes cant mark, only Moeti was left with that,For such a short guy to do it alone?? It worked against DRC(SF) but Egypt is no DRC. Fish wasnt procted since he is a player like to go foward so he left spaces at the back, which were not covered very well, just like in Barker team. Basically Bafana 96 was effective and played beutifully, Bafana 98 woned matches ugly except DRC one, and their system got flaws since players were played on it were not use for it simple as that. I'll go for beuty my friend any day and two times a week. Beside Doctor Greater than Mkhalele,Augastine Combined, Tinkler greater than Moeti add Buthelezi there, Sizwe greater than Rabutlla, Tovey is huge improvement in a team, Shoes with more attacking position, imagine that. P.S: I'll Counter ur argument about Benni later. Since he hasnt anything for South Africa that Phil Masinga,Shaun Bartlett,Mark Williams, they hasnt done. they've donr more for us than him. I'll discuss Benni in other topic though. |
| Nahtino |
I must say I undertimated U a bit Nkosi... damn BRO, u COME UP ON TIS FORUM AND exsposed my bussiness.. eish ...sana
ok ok sho aigt aight sana .. Il read your analysis just no nd respon to U |
| Nahtino |
eish bra , youv researched this ting REALLY WELL... I must comend U on brill presentation ...darn ..
well well ... Im sorta out f words ... eish its gon take while b4 I can respond effectvly just yt ... hmmm well dun though ... (Nkosi just myt be the next formost footballin mind on tis fourm if he keps this up) |
| nkosinipho |
Thakns broe? Where do you work?? Are you a Journalist/FootballAnalyst?.
About Benni?? I'll just like to tell you that Shaun,Masinga,Mark Williams are bigger Legends of South African football interms of Strikers, then Him And he will never reach that Level despite having maybe more talent then therm. Unfortunately Talent does not make the legend of the Country alone, the Great work for the Country should be there. Especiall for players that played fooball after 1992. Sadly Benni is not worthy to be put there in a place where the great 16V,Shoes Moshuoe,Lucas Radebe,Fish,Battlet,Masinga ect. just to name a few(Players from 92-, since wont put player from Jomo era in this discussion). Check his record for U-23 and Bafana Bafana you'ld see. People like to put him as a person who qualified Amagluglug to Olympics, but remember the history/games and check facts you''ll see that Nomvete,Matshau,Steve Lekoeleo,Stanton frederics,Mathew Booth,Fabien McCathy,Aroon Mokoena,JJP,Patric Mbuthu,Quinton Fortune,Delron Buckley ect. They did more for U-23 than him. And thats a fact. 98 Nations Cup? He is lucky because he scored 4goals aginst crappy Namibia(Tell have yu ever seen a team Concide 4goals in 11min, in such a Tournament?)Only Namimbia, Fail to impress against Angola first game-Elbow a player thanks to jomo for substituting him otherwise he would have gotten red card. Ivory Coast,Non factor again(maybe because came as substitue, jomo was right to punish him). Moroco, Score but played bad. we won thanks to Nyathi-and the fact we were outplayed as team there. agaist DRC score two, I should give credit to him he played well every chance we had he was behind it., he was awarded with 2goals desvedly so. Final choked-period. May I ask you How can 2 good games, make someone A Legend for the Country? PS Next time i'll educate you guys especial South African public for disgracing this Beutiful game by Calling it Soccer 
This is Football not Soccer
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| Nahtino |
Hmmm, the Prosecution would like time to analyse our argument in ligh of this new evidence ...your honour (Justic Vhamb)
we'll respond swiftly with our version sooon ...
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